Carbon Dragon Builders

Good Day!

I am pleased to say that I have recently received my plans for the carbon Dragon!

I am also surprise on the about of composites that are used on this aircraft. I was under the impression from all of the info material and magazine articles that there was carbon used sparingly in a few portions of the aircraft. Upon reviewing the drawings, the composites (Carbon, kevlar, and fiberglass) is used throughout every structure of the aircraft.

I am quite excited about the project, but my unfamiliarity with the composites are a bit concerning.

I was wondering if any other Carbon Dragon builders out there can recommend a good book, or have any advice to lend me. I intend to begin the construction in the fall, which will allow me the summer to gain my required knowledge.

Thanks,

Andrew Blanchard Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Congratulations on becoming a glider builder. I am not a Carbon Dragon builder and I know very little about composite construction. I am currently building a Woodstock. Take a look at my Woodstock web page, URL listed below.

I would like to build a Carbon Dragon in the future. Please pass along any Carbon Dragon information you find on the web. I am trying to keep a good list of references for the Carbon Dragon and Windrose on my web page.

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Okay, phebe. Now perhaps you can provide some alternate construction technique that will give the builder a 145 pound (65 Kg) aircraft with a 25:1 L/D.

Granted that composites have their difficulties and drawbacks, there are some things that just can't reasonably be done without them.

(What a wet blanket!)

Metal fatigues corrodes. Wood rots. Resins degrade. That's life. If you don't want to fly in a composite airplane, don't fly in an airliner.

The aircraft I work on (BV-107's) have had some metal parts replaced with composites, and they are holding up a lot better. Composites are proven, they work, they are the future.

i dont know anything about the carbon dragon but i do have alot of composite experience and ii would highly adviise against building a composite airplane. for these reasons:

very messy composites (especially carbon fiber) is extremely harmful in many ways, carbon fiber dust and splinters are carcinogenic. the dust is actually small fibers and when they get in your lungs they stay forever. resins are equally as bad solvents used in cleanup are carcinogenic. composites (must) have a climate controlled enviroment other forms of construction are easy to work with but composites for instance, you cant go out and just work for 10 minutes or so if you have spare time. you have to shower after just a little while out in the shop cause of the dust. your bed (will) be filled with prickly composite dust and fibers resins have a shelf life and if you have any delays on builing youll end up throwing the stuff away or worse, using after shelf life cause it 'looks ok' lots and lots and lots of sanding difficulty in inspectiing the composite structures for delamination and fatigue is potentially dangerous, i know a guy who used to maintain long ezes and vari ezes and he said that he was never really 100 % sure that there was no possibility of some degredation of the structure and alot of faith was put into the structure. i prefer to put no faith in anything im flying in. I would rather know its safe. metal aircraft are much more cut and dried. im not as familiar with wood but i think that its easier to inspect as well. im not trying to ruin your dream but i just really have been put off by this construction media. maybe for factories with stringent health policies and proper equiptmnent but not for homebuilding. anyway its your decision obviously. plenty of good books out there though if your gonna build invest in a roll of 'peel ply' it cuts down on the dust alot

: proven, they work, they are the future.

yep, it's inevitable, look at home plumbing over the last couple of decades, plastic has taken over the market for drain pipe, and water supply lines are increasingly built of it as well, not to mention widespread use of plastic piping in industrial & commercial applications. Even our 'money' is rapidly taking this form... ;^]

Controllable with good procedures

A good class industrial breathing mask and control of air movement while sanding ie: inside a temp tent of plastic sheets with a vacuum cleaner hose taped and running in corner

Good disposable industrial gloves sort that out

A temp plastic tent with a fan heater will lift temp up to required levels, humidity goes once temp is stable above 27 degrees centigrade,although strictly only 20 degrees is required with low humidity

Paper overalls with a hood , wrists and leg bottoms taped closed will not stop fibres completely but will cut them to a minimum

up

buy small amounts or work a deal with a supplier

do not use time expired resin , plan your layups well ahead to avoid losing

materials, as for sanding,expect but use peel tape as much as possible save lots of time

Composites are not like wood or metal, they fail or they don't, so failure is usually very obvious,they load up to 99% as many times as you like but go100% and complete failure is the result Metal aircraft fatigue,wood rots so I reckon its about evens

Regard your construction area as off limits to any other work and organize properly then I see only the same but different problems to other types homebuilt construction. Talk to someone who has done it and get some practice on the techniques, a composite boat building course (with carbon & kevlar) will give most of the required skills.

All of the suggestions given which allow one to work safely with composites are good, practical advice.

However, much of it is superfluous regarding this particular design...there is very little cutting or sanding of any cured components...none if done just right. The flying surfaces are wood and fabric, with the composites used judiciously where they make sense on this very light glider (145 lbs/ 65.90 kg empty weight).

However, before building, a prospective pilot should be aware of how fragile this glider is and how sensitive the flight envelope is to pilot weight and gust loading factors. I have about 500 hours in the prototype Carbon Dragon and would not recommend it generally for pilots weighing much more than 150 lbs. or those flying in very strong conditions. It is a wonderful proof-of-concept design, and I am not aware of anything in the world that can climb with it.As an example, I have a perfectly safe and documented save, witnessed by an FAI Observer, at 65 feet AGL. But the Carbon Dragon does have its limitations, another of which is its totally vulnerability if caught in one rainstorm.

Any pilots heavier than the above who are serious about a project of this nature may contact me about a small group of builders who are incorporating some modifications to alleviate some of the above concerns.

Best Regards, Gary Osoba