Need Info, Second post

I noticed that I accdentally posted this as a part of the 'Hang Glider Wanted thread, So I am sending again......

I am a relativly new pilot and I have a question about 2 different gliders. Currently I am flying a Falcon 170 and 195 depending on conditions. I have made several soaring flights to 4500' and have been able to stay up for an hour.

The problem is, when the wind is blowing the Falcom has no penetration. Thereby limiting me to stay close to the LZ in order to avoid an out landing. Why no out landing? My skills are not that developed (IMHO) and would hate to land in a bad or inaccessible area. And I would hate for my first out landing to be 3 miles away from where I took off. Since the Falcom glides like a brick I tend to stay within a couple of miles of the LZ.

I am about to move up to an Ultrasport (that's what they have) and am curios about the performance increase. I have looked at the polars for both and understand them but, I would like to hear some real world comparisons if possible.

It should be noted that I am not buying the glider. I currently rent and will continue to do so until I find the one I want. I am just trying to get some base line, real world information about how the two compare.

FYI, I fly on Orlando so the takeoff and LZ are the same.

Michael,

You DO know that gliders that didn't fly as well as the Falcon were the first gliders to fly 100 miles, don't you? You also shoud know that flights in Falcons in the vicinity of hundred miles have been achieved just in the last few weeks.

There are VERY few pilots that are actually held back because of their equipment.

As a 'relativly new pilot' your best chance to eventually become a high time, long time pilot, is to fly equipment that is designed and recommended for pilots who are not advanced.

Good luck!

Ken de Russy Anacortes, WA, USA

I am aware of all that. In fact I know Dave Glover personally who just did 90 plus miles in the last week or so. I know that under the right conditions that you can fly extremely far in a Falcon or similar glider.

But when flying into a 15 knot headwind what are the odds of making the next good thermal if you have to fly 3 miles to get it? I could always go downwind but sometimes that is not possible where I fly, so it limits my flight time. Of course my inexperience is a contributing factor but, I am getting better every day! Also, I am not trying to compensate for my level of experience by going to a higher performance wing. Its just the next logical step.

So the question remains, has anyone flown both the Falcon and the UltraSport that can give me good comparison of the characteristicsof both wings?

I tend to agree with both of you (Sorry) Sticking with the intermediate glider for a long time (40 hours plus) seems to make a better pilot of you. I state this as most of the good pilots in my local club stayed in intermediate gliders for 40 to 100 hours. A significantly large percentage of people who move up to performance gliders too early leave the sport in the following year or two, The gliders frighten the pilots, the pilots don't enjoy flying any more, they do something other than fly HG.

My intermediate glider was a 'Calypso' which was a pig to thermal and not the easiest glider to land either. So I can understand your desire to try a higher performance glider. Don't do it. Learn to fly to the limits of the intermediate this year, and change up next year.

Better to gain confidence out landing a low performance glider, you have more options when the glider doesn't retain energy too well. Push the envelope on this one before you try a faster one.

IMHO

Hey, not to intrude, but could someone answer a question for me?

I am an active skydiver (just moving into hanggliding) and, down here in Orlando (flying at Quest), I have seen many people easily stay up for over an hour at a time. In fact, on my first tandem (with a tow up to 1500' we were up for a good half hour with no real need no come down other than other waiting patrons.

So, being totally ignorant, my question is this... Roy mentioned to stay with an intermediate glider for 40 to 100 hours before you advance. That doesn't seem like a lot. What's the big deal with waiting 40 or 100 hours?

Thanx, in advance, for your patience and knowledge.

Blue skies and safe landings!

Fred Lackey Orlando, Florida

Pull on the VG and watch it go!... lands easily, flys nice with apx 1/3 vg on, now adverse yaw, tracks well in thermals, turn input is light, bar feedback is nice - a natural step into this glider from the falcon level, we primarily have all of our good intermediate pilots moving to this glider - these pilots generally have 30-50 hours.

A pig to thermal and difficult to land???? A Calypso???

You must have had a dodgy one, mine was bleemin loverly, mind you so is me increasingly acient Kiss.

Ok Lets breathe a little life into this thread.

First, thanks to all of you that have responded, I appreciate the information.

Here's the bottom line.... I WILL moving up from a Falcon (beginner) to an Ultrasport (intermediate). I fly at Wallaby Ranch in Orlando (great place) and thats what they have to offer in their rental fleet. I do not plan on buying a glider right now. I think renting is much better and will keep me from making a mistake down the road.

I do not plan on moving to an advanced glider. I agree that in any sport that has varing levels of equipment, going to the 'high end' (no pun intended) to fast can cause burnout. I have seen it many times and experienced it first hand. I want to have fun, and enjoy flying with a wing that thermals well, has good penetration, and is easy to control and land.

I have no desire to compete, I have done it in other venues and after a time it gets to be too muck like work. If I eventually by an Ultrasport or some other comparable glider, I will fly it for a long, long long time. When possible I will try other gliders before I commit myself to one. But for the time being, the UltraSport is the next glider I will fly.

So lets talk...

want to have fun, and enjoy flying with a wing that thermals well, has >good penetration, and is easy to control and land.

Yes, but have you towed it yet? I agree you should go with an intermediate after a Falcon, but the US is very yaw sensitive on tow. I rented one at Wallaby, and had a gas with it AFTER tow, thermaled with a vulture and was the first to 4,000' that day, landed after an hour of fun. The tow was a real handful, tho, the US is just like earlier WW gliders in that respect. Make sure they put a tail fin on it before you tow up, especially if your use to a Falcon.

Angelo Mantas