Slow hang-glider... the Cage?

I've dreamed of flying since I was a kid, but never had the time or money to pursue it. Recently, a friend at work described his hang-gliding / paragliding experiences and it's all I've been able to think about.

I should probably point out that I'm almost 40, about 40 pounds overweight, and I've lead a fairly sedentary lifestyle of late. I'm not a risk taker. I have a wife and 12 year old daughter at home and so I'm not about to take chances with my life. But to be able to fly... wow.

After doing a little research, paragliding seemed like a better match than hang-gliding since it is slower, easier to learn, easier to launch, comfort & convenience, etc. But my friend from work tried paragliding and hated the 'collapses'. He said he had two bad ones on his last flight

Dear Troll, stay home and watch football.

regards

The Cage won't prevent collapses. It provides an optimal planform that provides somewhat better performance than a regular paraglider. However, collapses can still happen.

who flies and teaches The Cage.

oh my god!!! go fast to see a doctor it seems that you've been infected by the virus of flying ..

well, either way paragliding or hanggliding there's always a risk (as zero risk doesn't exist for anything at all you could always fall from upstairs at home the thing is trying to do it the safest way possible...

well, yes, each one has it's advantages and disadvatages... (btw, as a disclaimer i've only flown hg in tandem as a passenger twice, i'm actually a pg pilot but i kind of like them both and would love to learn hg someday as i see them as complementary)

well, it's all a matter of taste, some people prefer having a fast rigid wing than a not so fast and collapsable one , anyway with modern standard paragliders there's no reason to have strong collapses unleast you're flying in strong conditions (wich you shouldn't if you don't have enough practice to anticipate the reactions of the wing, that's something that pilots trying other flying disciplines tend to forget quite easy, it's not the same thing so reactions are different, that might be what happened to your friend) or that you made something really stupid, in either case the wing should be back to normal flying pretty fast (only on really extreme cases you'll need to use the reserve parachute)... as for the little flaps, many times you won't even notice them if it weren't for the little noise when they reopen....btw, i'm not saying that pg dont collapse, i've been flying pg for 6 years and have never had an accident, sure i've had really big collapses (only 4 or 5 on 6 years) but only once it surprised me (was all my fault, new performance wing, strong conditions,... ) otherwise i kind of expected them because i knew the conditions i was flying were extremely strong (try pihedrahita or castejon de sos in july at 14:00!! .

The problem with pg as you said is of course when the wing collapses near the ground, in that case it's for certain that you've made a mistake, and it's all your fault because you either: a) just took off on conditions where you shouldn't, b) you're trying to land on a highly turbulent place (where you shouldn't be on the first place), c) you didn't respect the minimum distance against the relief... well there are many more but all they are due to the pilot's mistake of overestimating his skills, or understimating the flying conditions... and i think that's valid for hg either..or not? correct me if i'm wrong hg guys...

haven't tried it yet, but i have a friend that has been flying exclusively with one of those for 2 years, for what i've seen they have the same performance as a similar pg, OTOH they're seem to be better to center thermics, and takeoff seems to be quite easy event with strong wind, they also seem to be quite solid on turbulence but they can collapse also (although less than a standard pg it seems), if you want to know more about it there is an association of cage pilots worldwide: http://www.aspic.org/index-gb.htm

..but beware, they're going to try to convince you that the cage it's the best flying engine ever invented (well, as any pilot would do with his preferred flying device

Dixon White is the instructor I mentioned! I live in the Seattle area so he is less than two hours away! I'll definitely contact him and find out what he has to say. Thanks.

Thanks for the link! I'll check it out.

if you want

Better hurry and call Dixon - he is leaving for AZ in a few weeks.

As a one-time PG instructor, I feel very strongly that any student who has unintentional collapses very early in their flying career has not been properly instructed.

First, no sane instructor would ever send a student into air rowdy enough to cause collapses. Second, any new pilot who launches into such conditions has been poorly trained in properly assessing flying conditions, and making the decision to stay on the ground.

Both, IMHO, are instructor failures.

Of course, there is that famous disease known as 'Intermediate Syndrome' that even the best students with the best instructors somehow manage to become infected with. The new pilot has 'mental' skills that exceed their true flight skills, or may simply be over confident, suicidal, or amazingly stupid.

With my students, I kept flying with them after lessons were completed just so I could watch for Intermediate Syndrome, and I would scare the living shit out of them when I caught them making poor decisions. Reasonable fear is a pilot's best friend. A fearless pilot is either stupid or ready to die.

Either way, no pilot should ever encounter collapses until they are ready for them, and can actually know IN ADVANCE on which flights to EXPECT them.

Your friend, I suspect, was either poorly instructed (too few lessons, or a weak instructor), or just failed to account for his own limits (Intermediate Syndrome).

That said, collapses are not rare occurrences

I tried a demo when they first came to the States, and was both impressed and disappointed. The Cage is in many ways easier to learn and control than a regular PG (no brakes, no speed bar), but I found it hard to explore the limits of the flight envelope. In particular, I found it nearly impossible to perform standard maneuvers (collapses and stalls) since the lines to the canopy were nearly unreachable. There are special toggles that make 'Big Ears' a delight to enter and exit, but beyond that, the pilot has no direct input to the canopy itself.

If I were a weekend-only pilot at a ridge (non-thermal) site, I think the Cage could be an ideal glider. However, without doing extreme maneuvers in a controlled manner, I feel I could never quite trust the wing in stronger, thermal conditions.

But as another reply mentioned, Dixon White is probably the ultimate authority on the Cage in this country. Be sure to raise my points with him, for I would not be surprised if he has found good solutions to them all.

As for myself, even if all the above concerns were neatly resolved, I doubt I'd enjoy the Cage. Just as HG pilots love their VG (Variable Geometry), experienced PG pilots also tend to like to have as much control over the shape of their airfoil as possible. Then again, it is possible the Cage has evolved to address even this concern.

Please copy to this newsgroup the information Dixon shares with you!

I've never heard of this cage thingy. Can someone tell me what the cage is, and what it does?

Here's the link to Dixon's page: http://www.paraglide.com/The_Cage.htm

<< After doing a little research, paragliding seemed like a better match than hang-gliding since it is slower, easier to learn, easier to launch, comfort & convenience, etc >>

Easier to launch? Who told you that? Inflating a paradiver and keeping it under control could be the hardest thing you ever do, HG are much easier to launch. Landing is another matter, PG beat us HG pilots for ease of landing.

I agree about the collapses. I've been in air that scared me when I was in a nice, solid-framed HG, the idea of flying an easily collapsing wing doesn't appeal to me.

Get a big, floater HG like a Falcon. Still has better performance than a paraglider and won't collapse in a thermal.

Angelo Mantas